Species Reworks #19450
Species Reworks #19450
Conversation
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Reviving after death (for both slimes and diona) seems busted overall. Creating more players even more so. Thing is, memories SHOULD be lost. Getting to revive with your memories ruins a lot of game dynamics. Also, breathing CO2 kinda ruins some antag strats entirely, but i guess it is fair for a race that is so slow |
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diona can already breath CO2 |
Diona breathing CO2 is already a thing. |
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I've read in your document especially arachnids. Damn it, this is a species created purely for power gaming, they have no cons at all. They are faster without meth than humans under meth, stronger, have 4 arms, feel hunger and thirst less often than humans. |
My bad on Dionas. But dying should not be this meaningless and this is just busted even if delayed. Getting jumped in maints is part of the maints experience. It is already pretty trivial to revive people. Without mentioning that waiting a while is very un-engaging. |
They no longer move faster- the document doesn't say they do either. I still think their upsides far outweigh their downsides, however.
This is already how reviving works..? Defibbing works like this (and slimes, diona and moths currently don't rot, so they can be ghosted for literally an hour just to get revived and keep their memories. Cloning also works like this, and that's literally getting a different body. Diona are supposed to be made of several nymphs combined- it only makes sense they would keep memories. |
If you get jumped in maints the person who jumped you is fully capable of killing a nymph that moves slower than a player and has 30 health when it spawns. Nymphs are also able to move around and say stuff still, so it isn't like you can't do anything. Slimes are sort of a different story, since they're technically doing "nothing" while waiting to reform, but you're already perma-dead when gibbed normally anyways so to the idea is you'll chill a bit as a ghost before reforming. |
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I think nymphs are fine since you just create your own ghost role, my issue are slimes. Dying is part of the game, no one should get to circumvent that on their own. |
Then no one other than humans should be the roundstart race. |
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is this possible to borg dionas and slimes? because if they cannot i do think the "self" revive mechanic is good, they should tho in a sense be less than what they were and still count as dead for syndicates objectives |
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shouldn't this be split into 1 pr per species change, instead of all of the changes at once? (pr is unfinished obviously but i feel like it might be an issue once done) |
"still count as dead for syndicates objectives" defeats the entire point. This is supposed to be an upside. if cloning doesn't count as dead this shouldn't either. You can very easily throw the slime core into space or just keep it on you, and I've talked before about how Nymphs are easy to kill.
Maybe, this just felt fitting since it addresses two issues on github and follows one design doc. If maints wish I can split it pretty easily |
yeah but if they can't be borged what would be their alternatives for half-revive? other than self revive that can be prevented by PK them by throwing the self regenerative stuff in space? it exist but is frown upon even on Lizard for information. so you just want these two species to be permanently killable very easily but still giving them a false chance to survive? |
They're just as easy (or difficult) to perma kill as every other species. I don't really see how this is a point. They can still be borged, but people are discouraged from doing it to slimes as they have a way to revive themselves. |
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Im gonna join the argument against self revives, this will just encourage spacing and gibbing bodies which i see as good and bad. But being able to self revive gets rid of the reason of med to do that for you. I think its better if it required at least some kind of other player interaction first. This may also feel unfair to species without the revive ability, why can they get to play the game after a bit of timeout while they sit in a locker dead for the rest of the round? |
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why do then any features of the races, if they give certain advantages? |
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If you are confused by the "indestructibility" of the slime core, then do not forget about cremation. Besides, I'm more than sure that it will be possible to do other ways of final killing. To me, this is just a small test for the antagonists, which will make them think more radically. |
Med is already fully incapable of reviving gibbed bodies. The slimes rework doesn’t take anything away from them. The diona rework I intend to do in a way that getting revived via Nymph is worse than being revived normally and it’s something you’ll only do if you have to. I don’t see how this is removing med gameplay at all.
Because they picked a different race and they have different upsides? You could make this argument for race upsides that are already in the game. Why do humans get to use emergency suits for a super long time when Lizards die almost instant after using it? Why do other classes have to suffocate so quickly when slimes take forever? |
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request. |
You can simply hoist the humanoid on the hook and dismantle the hook. To do this, you will need 12 seconds and several sheets of steel. |
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request. |
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I'll be splitting this into separate PRs soonish, so the lizard and moth changes can get thrown in while I figure out what the fuck is happening with reforming. |
Good to see #20328 coming out of this project, makes me really hopeful about a fruitful future for dionæ kind. |
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Half already in the game, half derelict. Might finish diona eventually but don't get your hopes up. |
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I pray 🙏🏻 |
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I pray 🙏🏻 |
I will re-add and fill in the rest of the details once this is closer to being finished. For the what and why, look at this design doc, under "Race Rework Proposal." If there's a problem with any of the designs I've outlined, please tell me before I decide to go and code it all.
As for what actually needs to be done (I've gone through and laid this out in the order I intend to do it):
Moths:
Diona:
Lizards:
Slimes:
Final Bit I should do:
Media