Replies: 19 comments 30 replies
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有一个问题，我稍微确认下，就是如果对 lotus 有一定定制化开发的，是不是只要替换 lotus 就行了？我目测是只要替换 lotus，就确认下。 |
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这是正确的！密封软件没有变化。唯一的变化是状态的修改。一旦产生了包含新约定状态的链快照，官方同步节点也会接受它 这种变化非常小：只需要矿工们达成一致。这就是我们有信心实现它的原因 |
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@Fatman13 我们还可以为 venus 实现一个补丁。如果您有兴趣，请告诉我们活动源代码是什么。https://github.com/filecoin-project/venus/tree/master？ |
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我找了一个朋友帮忙看了一下。hack 了一个 venus 的版本。不知道对不对。我具体代码这一块还不是最熟。 |
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@Fatman13 看起来是对的！如果 ForceNet 仍在运行，您也可以在那里测试。如果您想更有信心，我们可以尝试将 venus 节点添加到我们的内部测试网络之一。但这需要一些时间 |
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Any idea why FIP93 is not listed here? https://github.com/filecoin-project/FIPs As quoted from the FIP page, "it is critical for the community to collectively be engaged in proposing, discussing, and implementing changes that improve the network and its operations." |
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I think thats probably user error on my part - I'm not super familiar with the fip editing process, so i probably missed adding it (i think i added it on my fork, im not sure at what point it shows up in the main table) |
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probably worth noting - FilOz actually has been helping quite a bit (Anorth / Jenni did a lot of feedback + commenting) - the slowness has been mostly my own travel schedule (though if there's someone interested in coauthoring to move things along faster i'm open to it! not sure we need a fork) that being said - i got to meet some SPs over the last few weeks who had some interesting perspectives (less so about how we'd go about using the mining reserve to do the things flagged, more about recognizing we have some critical gaps and realizing that it would be ideal if there were a way to bridge them): filecoin-project/FIPs#1030 (reply in thread) |
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这不是分叉。这是一次升级。就像过去的其他 23 个版本一样
您是否制定了总体规划？请与我们分享。不要为小升级分心 |
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So on this FIP/topic specifically: I think the optical issue of FDV / Market Cap is a real issue. Personally, this is where I see removing the mining reserve to be impt (with the asterix that it is possible we will want to fund more things in the future). However, I see this as the "what is FIL for" question to be the biggest breaking point - if people want to anchor very heavily to 2bn as a max supply, we probably are better off not burning the tokens and leaving them locked for optionality. If people agree that there are many things that may need to change from our current trajectory (as listed in that comment: whether that may be changing how we incentivize real paid flows into the eco, acquisition fund for protocols => asterix that none of these have a fleshed out answer on how we'd actually get community alignment on how to do this) I think its worth closing this narrative gap and removing the reserve, and using FIPs to add incentives / proposals when people have them (and folks can argue). More generally re master plan: We still have a lot of gaps to make this happen - we do not have reliable openly available set of resources (or even a common understanding per use case of the technical gaps). This means there's some SPs who are figuring out how to monetize, but many others that are just seeing block rewards shrink and cannot get paid deals. In order to close this gap, I think we basically need three things:
On (1) - I think this ends up splitting again as people then focus on archival vs hot storage (and how tied should those hot storage pieces be to the L1 vs L2s etc etc). On (3) - I think this is where there may be an opp for the FF / others consider. At the SP meet up (actually think almost everyone you tagged minus Anorth was also there), I met a lot of SPs who expressed painpoints at finding real customers + how hard the stack is => and a lot of the frustration in the current situation seemed to be around the shrinking rewards + no fiat flows in. Perhaps an opportunity (if we can map this out properly) is getting the FF to help teams who are able to refocus effort on building out the necessary tooling pieces that can make it easier for everyone to accelerate. |
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wrt FIL-OZ inane comments on your FIP are not helpful ex. "what are the security considerations of burning the mining reserve" That's just a stalling tactic |
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@The-Wayvy you are reading way too much into editorial comments on the FIP. Each FIP is asked to include a Security Consideration per the template. Now that does maybe sound "weird" for a FIP proposing to burn the funds, at least for someone in the knowhow about how burn actors/addresses work. But for people unaware of that, is it actually insane to add a single section on the security of sending funds to the f099 actor? Probably not! It takes exactly 5-10 minutes to write what is most likely an acceptable start to such a section. Here is an example: Security ConsiderationsThe Filecoin f099 burn actor is designed to be a secure mechanism for permanently removing tokens from circulation. Similar to Ethereum's burn address (link to some resource), the f099 actor does not have an associated private key, ensuring that once tokens are sent to this address, they cannot be retrieved or moved. This irreversibility is a critical security feature, as it guarantees that the intended reduction in circulating supply is permanent and verifiable on-chain. Verification and Network StabilityIt is important to verify that the correct amount is burned, no more and no less. This can be done through on-chain auditing. Additionally, reducing the mining reserve does not impact the network's ability to operate securely, as these funds were not actively used in consensus or other critical operations. And if the author thinks the |
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You are proposing a fork to the network by ignoring the Filecoin network governance process instead of engaging in the FIP process and participating in the FIP discussion of FIP-0093. If you want to help shape the upgrade trajectory of the network, you should at least put some effort into working with the FIP author (@jnthnvctr in this case), core dev/implementer, and the community to get feedback on the FIP and help drive the consensus. |
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You are also making some comments about our FilOz team which I think is quite nasty and not backed by facts.
You also mentioned FIL+, in which our team has not actively allocated time, as we chose to spend our expertise on things that are the highest leverage for us to contribute to the network. And, any other network teams, like the FF FIL+ team, FIDL, and allocator builders, have been allocating a lot of resources to think about and work on the program. Even with that thought, we are still trying to carve out time to provide some guidance on the most recent FIL+ related FIP proposal. If there are new FIP ideas, we will be happy to engage in the discussion and provide peer reviews. |
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一瓶子不响,半瓶子晃荡。
您的团队接受什么变化并不重要。
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Judging from the actual effect, the current functions have 0 help for filecoin. Except for FIL+, the value of FIL+ is -10000000000000000000000000000000. This is the result of 4 years. |
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兄弟，我支持你。打倒胡割。 |
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没用啊，矿工不团结，一样没用 |
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Oooof that's spicy 😿 On one hand (provided google translate is correct) I have to partially agree with @jennijuju. The statement is quite unfair to FilOz developers, who are trying their best given the situation they are in. On the other hand I very strongly agree with the underlying point made by @88phnx88: FilOz management continues to behave as opinionated owners of the network, contrary to their limited mandate of being humble stewards of the reference implementation. The change proposed is quite clever. It requires literally zero changes to any portion of the syncer code. It is also correct that an unmodified "official" lotus will happily continue working off a snapshot containing state with the proposed change applied. From an operational perspective this proposal is entirely symbolic. Which is exactly what the network needs today - a proof that the network is able to enact changes without PL signing off on them. Therefore, despite the unfortunate vitriolic statement, I fully support @88phnx88's initiative. Putting my money where my mouth is: I am committing to dusting off my original chain snapshot infrastructure and by end of this week standing up a public service that will serve calibnet and later mainnet state-snapshots including the LFG! 🚀 |
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@88phnx88 it is coming, just slower than expected (I got rather sick 🤒) |
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Better late than later... 😅 The export is now ready and operational. In order to follow the chain after the It is estimated that the ☝️ snapshot inclding the new post-burn state ☝️ will be available for download some time around In case one needs to get back to the PL-led chain one would run: |
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thank you！ |
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No new snashots have been published as the chain did not progress. See #1 (reply in thread) |
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Everything related to snapshots as per #1 (reply in thread) is functional once again. Let's see how this round goes... 🤞 |
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重起炉灶太难了，不确定性因素也太大了。对于我一个还没回本的小SP来说，努力回本挣到钱是最主要的，现在我不可能把算力从确定还有收益的地方转到一个目前不可能有收益的地方，而且也害怕硬分叉本身会对fil的价格产生不利的影响，因为我有太重的资产在fil上。我非常希望fil的治理能够真正的社区化、民主化。你能把你的这个everything burn的想法作为正式提案提出么？ |
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FIP提案是按拥有的token数量同权投票的么？投票的设置权是否是在PL里？ |
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打倒 胡安 把币拿回来 |
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Hi, |
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@helloivanco what happen to your post? |
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Summary of Key Discussion Points for FIP-0093 (EverythingBurns)Context: 1. Timeline and Next Steps
2. Key Points for DiscussionA. Governance and Process ConcernsSupport for Governance Process (from @jennijuju):
Opposition to FilOz Criticism (from @jennijuju):
B. Symbolic vs Practical DebateSupport for Symbolic Burn (from @88phnx88 and @ribasushi):
Concerns Over Practical Value (from @jnthnvctr):
3. Technical Considerations and SecuritySecurity Considerations (from @rjan90):
Lotus Modifications Clarified (from @88phnx88):
4. Concerns from the CommunityA. Smaller SPs at Risk (from @solopine):
B. Broader Calls for Democratic Governance
5. Market Perception and FDV (Fully Diluted Value)Impact on Investor Confidence (from @88phnx88 and @jnthnvctr):
6. Action Items and Feedback RequestsFinal Testing and Community Involvement:
Conclusion:FIP-0093 (EverythingBurns) has generated a mix of support and concern. While some view the burn as a necessary symbolic step to prove community autonomy and improve Filecoin’s optics, others are more cautious about its long-term implications, particularly around governance and practical network sustainability. The final test on CalibrationNet will be a crucial moment, with the burn potentially going live on MainNet by the end of October. |
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升级似乎成功了。但 15 分钟后，新链条上没有新区块。看起来没有一个区块生产者被切换。 这真让人难过。至少我们尝试了 ✊ |
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发送 PR 以提议新的时间 |
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@Fatman13 @steven004 @happykiss359 @15012700225 @NDLABS-Leo @fy810519 华人社区掌握着所有 "如果大家有DC需求…" FIL GAME OVER。 |
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@Fatman13 FTW！根据新的 calib 日期更新了所有代码。添加了变更概览：https://github.com/88phnx88/lotus/blob/master/README.md#everythingburns 请记住：calib 测试只需要一小部分功率就能证明一切正常。之后就可以在胡割控制的叉子上继续开采了。 |
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Oh wow! @88phnx88 @Fatman13 does this mean you guys came to an agreement to do a minimal test 10h before the FilOz one? I will support with snapshots and all as per #1 (comment), even though I will have to get up at 5am 🥴 But please let me know you will do in fact test something, otherwise I might as well 😴 |
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This is the question for @Fatman13… |
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Burn it all! Save Filecoin! :) |
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@88phnx88 I like your style!
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月到是秋分外明，又是一年团圆日，祝你节日愉快，身体安康
然而，我们的世界正处于悲痛之中
FIL 正在消亡：https://dashboard.starboard.ventures/capacity-services#storage-state
太多贪婪：filecoin-project/FIPs#1033 (comment)
太多傲慢：https://filecoinproject.slack.com/archives/C01EU76LPCJ/p1725399169289199?thread_ts=1725098351.722429&cid=C01EU76LPCJ
太多的无能：filecoin-project/FIPs#847 (reply in thread)
太多不作为：filecoin-project/FIPs#799
没有方向。只有分心和被遗忘的承诺：https://filecoin.io/blog/updates/#posts
我们知道胡割是如何欺骗我们并以我们为代价中饱私囊的
我们知道问题是可以解决的
我们相信网络会投票反对他
我们已经实施了 FIP93：将所有资金从
f090转移到f099。这一变化已在多个私人网络中进行了全面测试。它不会以任何方式影响货币供应。这一现代化的唯一目的是传达一个信息：一切都可以燃烧https://github.com/88phnx88/lotus/commits/fip0093-v1.28.1
https://github.com/88phnx88/lotus/commits/fip0093-v1.29.1
https://github.com/88phnx88/lotus/commits/fip0093-next
在这个秋分，我们的立场和呼吁是：
CalibrationNet运营商与我们一起进行最后一次测试，并在2018134/2024-10-02T12:00:00Z2077594/2024-10-23T03:30:00Z 期间激活EverythingBurnsMainNet节点运营商加入我们，共同庆祝我们的团结 4399440/2024-10-30T12:00:00Z家和萬事興
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