What is the best desktop client?

[digitaldissent]

I'd like to know what the recommended (Linux)desktop client is; none that I have tried work well for me. I tried using Nextcloud as a backend and then synched to Kmail and Thunderbird. Tasks would "pile up" in my email client and not sync properly. I could add a task from my email client, and it would sync to Jtx; then, if I checked it done in Jtx, it would never be marked done in Thunderbird/Kmail. Tasks just seem to get stuck and then pile up. If I created and then complete a task in Jtx it might sync all that to Thunderbird or get stuck as an open task or maybe get stuck as a completed task.

I moved to Radicale as a backend, and now with Thunderbird and Evolution, the same issues. Evolution works a little better.

I am not getting any errors in my clients, and I am on Jtx 2.4

What are people using as desktop clients? Jtx alone is fine, but I want to use my laptop : /

[rogercreagh]

Good question. Currently I haven't found one - for me the problem is that I primarily use journals - tasks are well handled by a plethora of apps - one of jtxB's main benefits for tasks is to sync through a CalDAV server, so its disappointing to learn that you have problems syncing with Tbird and Evolution.

I have used both as email & calendar clients and in themselves I found their tasks apps ok for laptop use but never managed to get them syncing well with a phone app. But basically I'm too disorganised to use a task app on any platform effectively anyway.

For journals I don't have a desktop solution at all - there is (as yet) no linux app that works with a CalDAV server for Vcalendar journal entries without using a calendar interface. (probably the same on Win & Mac)

What is needed is a dedicated Journal and Notebook program that is optimised for handling Journals (which typically you want to read like a book or diary and add entries at the end). There are plenty of notebook apps for Linux, but none I have found using VCalendar Vjournal entries (with no start date - which Patrick is cleverly using to distinguish between a journal/diary entry and a freestanding note in the absence of a VNOTE component in the spec) as a cross platform sync mechanism. jtxB is excellent for this - we just need a Linux app.

My C is very rusty and I've never written a program on Linux (I started on MsDos). I used to do a lot of php before retiring a few years ago so I am playing with building a web based Journal and Notebook viewer using php. Slow progress but nearly usable and will at least enable me to read, edit, create, and sync entries from my laptop (when online) (or any browser on any platform).

I'd love to hear what others are using,especially those who are using jtxB to keep a journal or diary, or as a note taking device.

[patrickunterwegs]

Hey @digitaldissent ,
I have tried the synchronization with Thunderbird (on windows) and kOrganizer (Linux) and Evolution (Linux) and I didn't notice any sync issues.

As @rogercreagh already mentioned, I'm also not aware of any installable alternatives. Theoretically you could install jtx Board on Linux (there is a "show and tell" discussion about this) using Waydroid.

The backend itself shouldn't really make a difference... Radicale or Nextcloud, both should work properly. (In Nextcloud you would also have a web interface for tasks, but the functionality is very limited).

Are you sure that your problem isn't just a sync setting issue? When looking at your description it looks more like the downwards sync from your server to thunderbird doesn't work properly. Or did you track it down to the behavior that only the completed status wasn't synchronized?

But are you sure that there wasn't just

[digitaldissent]

When looking at your description it looks more like the downwards sync from your server to thunderbird doesn't work properly

Indeed it does, none of these issues seem to be coming from JTX but different types of tasks appear in the clients, but the tasks are not the same, some are one-time and some are reoccurring.

I think I will setup Radicale locally and see how that works

But 1st I found this -> https://github.com/flozz/calcleaner

[digitaldissent]

@patrickunterwegs
This is interesting, logs from my Radicale server

`Bad PUT request on '/user/8c697e24-b34c-25c4-2426-9dc2b0792806/d8aa7fbd-0333-4f0b-96d8-a6fca6247c7f.ics': Main component missing

[2023-05-08 13:28:07 +0000] [6/Thread-1910 (process_request_thread)] [WARNING] Bad PUT request on '/user/8c697e24-b34c-25c4-2426-9dc2b0792806/d8aa7fbd-0333-4f0b-96d8-a6fca6247c7f.ics': Main component missing

[2023-05-08 13:29:17 +0000] [6/Thread-1917 (process_request_thread)] [WARNING] Bad PUT request on '/user/8c697e24-b34c-25c4-2426-9dc2b0792806/d8aa7fbd-0333-4f0b-96d8-a6fca6247c7f.ics': can't compare offset-naive and offset-aware datetimes

[2023-05-08 13:32:00 +0000] [6/Thread-2017 (process_request_thread)] [WARNING] Bad PUT request on '/user/8c697e24-b34c-25c4-2426-9dc2b0792806/d8aa7fbd-0333-4f0b-96d8-a6fca6247c7f.ics': can't compare offset-naive and offset-aware datetimes

[2023-05-08 13:32:12 +0000] [6/Thread-2018 (process_request_thread)] [WARNING] Bad PUT request on '/user/8c697e24-b34c-25c4-2426-9dc2b0792806/d8aa7fbd-0333-4f0b-96d8-a6fca6247c7f.ics': Main component missing`

[patrickunterwegs]

Hm, yes, that's interesting, maybe it's really just a broken entry that messes with the whole synchronization. Would you mind uploading this problematic .ics? (I mean only if it doesn't contain any sensitive data)

[digitaldissent]

Hm, yes, that's interesting, maybe it's really just a broken entry that messes with the whole synchronization. Would you mind uploading this problematic .ics? (I mean only if it doesn't contain any sensitive data)

A little background information, I have been hosting my Nextcloud server for a few years and then migrated my Calendar to Radicale, so there are over 2,000 .ics files many are probably corrupted. I ran the CalDav cleaner I linked to above to remove all but the last two weeks. I did notice that clients would hold onto bad entries, I deleted those and so far things are working pretty well, I am going to monitor and see how things go.

[patrickunterwegs]

Thanks for the update! Fingers crossed that the cleanup solved the issue for good 🤞😉

[bepolymathe]

Hi @ALL

After various trials, I've found thunderbird to be the most convincing, because it displays tasks in the calendar... which also lets you "timeblock". However, I can't find a solution (either native or via add-ons) to retrieve my jtx memos/remarks in thunderbird (or even under linux in general). Any ideas?

PS: Evolution does it, but it's a calamity for mail retrieval compared to thunderbird...
PS2: Perhaps the jtx team could usefully develop a functional addon for Thunderbird to bring this great tool to this ecosystem (and vice versa) ;-)

[patrickunterwegs]

Hey, kOrganizer is the second Linux app that supports vjournal, but it's also very basic. Regrettably I can't recommend anything else and I'm not aware of any other solutions at the moment, but I hope others will follow.

If there was a team that's not just me, I'd definitely consider trying an add-on for another application 😉

[rogercreagh]

You are already a star for your seemingly tireless work on this. Thank you so much. I appreciate how much work is involved making slow progress on my own vjournal joomla extension. Blooming well done.

If anyone on here has any Thunderbird addon or Linux desktop app dev knowledge we would be happy to help with advice and experience from other platforms using CalDAV clients. Even drafting a requirements spec would be a start...

[bepolymathe]

Hi @patrickunterwegs and @rogercreagh

If there was a team that's not just me, I'd definitely consider trying an add-on for another application wink

Yes, of course I understand completely. I agree that the work done is already brilliant and much appreciated. Personally, I'd be very happy with a Thunderbird addon, but I think some users would prefer a dedicated desktop application (flatpak). In terms of note-taking software, I know that Qownnotes lets you sync caldav tasks, but that's pretty basic too.

If anyone on here has any Thunderbird addon or Linux desktop app dev knowledge we would be happy to help with advice and experience from other platforms using CalDAV clients.

Unfortunately I have no development skills in this area. From my point of view, the advantage of a desktop application would be to be able to retrieve notes in markdown format in a folder. This would make it possible to use these notes in documentation management applications such as Logseq, Obsidian, Qownnotes, etc. But I'll have to take a look at Vdirsyncer, which was mentioned above, to see if we can achieve anything with it concerning notes or even journal entries.

[boxallar]

Hi, I have managed to sync thunderbird too. It works for tasks, but notes are not there.
Evolution is similar for me. I can sync tasks back and forth without problems, but the "Memos" tab does not seem to be syncable.
Korganizer is promising. There are tabs/menu items for ToDos and Journals. I have not been able to sync though. Thunderbird and Evolution both have nice wizards that walked me through the setup of my account. Korganizer has some help, but I have not managed to get it to work.
Can anyone help me? I am syncing with DAVx5

[boxallar]

I found the solution to my syncing with Korganiser issues here: https://jtx.techbee.at/troubles-with-the-synchronization-see-what-could-go-wrong

RTFM, yeah, I know 🫢

I needed to create a new calendar with all the necessary entry types. It was very easy to do with DAVx⁵. A nice advantage of working closely together I guess.
In lieu of a wizard fetching the info I needed, I could copy the appropriate URLs that Thunderbird and Evolution had found.

[patrickunterwegs]

Hey, sorry for the late reply, but you figured it out anyway :-) I hope now it works smoothly :-)

[Savanta]

Thunderbird is good and pretty fast with syncing but regrettably doesn't support subtasks. Everything is piled together.
Feature request for thunderbird subtasks is 21yo... It could legally go to bar

[boxallar]

Hi, can people who use jtx on their phones and want access on desktop please share their workflows? I am still looking for a good solution. I am on Linux.

• Thunderbird has no notes or journals and the tasks do not sync with hierarchy
• Evolution seems to work for notes, but the task hierarchy and journals are not there
• Korganizer has task hierarchy and journals, but no notes as far as I can see
• I can see my tasks with hierarchy from my internet browser, but have not figured out how to see my notes there
• I am not keen on emulating a phone on my computer. It sounds inefficient, fiddly and not the best way to display things on a larger screen. I am open to being told otherwise though.

The most important things for me are notes and tasks with hierarchy of sub-tasks. Without the sub-tasks my to-dos get too long, and I have no overview. Ideally I would have everything in one application, but 2 small apps would be fine. I do not really want to use 2 big programmes like say Korganizer and Evolution. One or two tabs in my browser would also be fine.
Any thought or suggestions will be appreciated. :)

[Julianoe]

Did you need to do something specific to make it work with Korganizer? Mine shows up empty of journals entries even though I have plenty in my Nextcloud which is synchronized with DAV

[Julianoe]

It's been a few months, any new ideas? How do you edit your journals on desktop?

[mcastillof]

You may be interested in #1554

[edwin-jones]

Hey folks, if anybody needs a work around gnome evolution technically supports all things, including journals. It treats notes and journals as the same and from what I can tell VJOURNAL is used for both - the difference being journal entries (that show up as such in jtx) have the date set. To convert a note to a journal entry just add the date. To convert a journal entry to a note, remove the date. I am not sure how to convert to and from tasks though.

I hope this helps folks, I haven't found a better desktop linux tool yet myself for CALDAV sync of contacts, notes, calendars, tasks and journal entries yet. No decent web solutions either.

[mcastillof]

@edwin-jones I'm trying Evolution. If a task is created in jtxBoard or Evolution, is it shown in the other application as well? Doesn't seem to work for me.

[mcastillof]

Sorry. Tasks are working fine, I confused an appointment in the calendar as a task. I would love to see tasks in the calendar. that's not posible, right?

[edwin-jones]

Not that's I'm aware of but I don't use them. I can create tasks in evolution and see them in jtx and vice versa though.

[patrickunterwegs]

The problem with showing a task in a calendar is the structure of the VEVENT and VTODO, while the VEVENT MUST have a DTSTART and a DTEND date/time (where systems can rely that they are always present), the VTODO CAN have a DTSTART, DUE and COMPLETED date/time.
So calendar apps would struggle if there's no date at all present for a VTODO. Then a decision must be made when tasks actually end in a calendar (do they have a default duration? - which is not defined, do they end on the due date? the completed date?). There standard doesn't define this, so even if a solution is possible, I assume that most calendar apps didn't want to take such a custom decision and rather not show VTODOs.

[rogercreagh]

I haven't tried it (yet) but if you are on linux then I believe KDE Organizer which runs on the KDE Plasma desktop does handle VJOURNAL entries.

I'm on Ubuntu 24.04 and it says you can install KDE plasma desktop in parallel with Gnome (the default) and switch between them. I'm thinking I might give it a go...

[Julianoe]

Yes I've been using kOrganizer and it works well. The user interface takes a little bit to get used to, but once you understand how to switch from calendars to journals and displays everything in a weekly or monthly manner it is super useful.
In fact most my entries I do on kOrganizer now. The typing in jtxBoard is super annoying and it is in fact a quite bad experience to add entries in it as a journaling too.
In principle you should be able to install kOrganizer on Ubuntu. I'm on Manjaro and it works very well

[rogercreagh]

Thanks - I'll def give it a go.

[edwin-jones]

kOrganiser works but it doesn't handle all the other things. If all you need is journals it's probably the best desktop option but I'm on Ubuntu so I prefer native gnome apps.

[rogercreagh]

Meanwhile one day I'll get back to my half completed Journal extension for joomla which will give ma a browser tab view of Journals and notes (but not tasks - there are other apps for them and for me tasks are a completely different application than journals - tasks are about what you are planning to do, journals are about recording what you' did.

For me I'd prefer JtxB didn't waste its time with tasks, and concentrated on its original purpose - handling VJOURNAL events well.